Independent Scotland Could Be Big Trouble, Except For One Huge Thing

In The Young Turks on YouTube by Hlarson9 Comments

 

“An opinion poll showing Scottish independence campaigners have a slim lead nine days before a crucial referendum has highlighted reasons for the wider world and investors to pay heed to the Sept. 18 vote, which could see Britain lose 5.3 million Scots.

Foreign governments and financial markets had long assumed Scots would view independence from the United Kingdom as too risky a leap but the sudden swing, confirmed by another survey showing the two camps neck-and-neck, has exploded such complacency.

Losing Scotland would likely weaken Britain as a power, dent its self-confidence and make it more introverted, increasing doubts about its future in Europe.”* The Young Turks host Cenk Uygur breaks it down.

*Read more here from Mike Peacock / Reuters:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/09/09/uk-scotland-independence-world-idUKKBN0H40ZZ20140909

Comments

  1. This idea of ‘freedom’ that is portrayed here is foolish in the context of today’s world. Scotland will be no more ‘free’ than any other small country. The main purposes of national governments are the economy and civil defense (from internal and external forces). In both these areas an ‘independent’ Scotland will clearly be weakened. Inevitably therefore you’ll need support from others. Keep in mind Scotland, despite the ups and downs, your best allies in all of history have been the English. I’m sure many will volunteer to replace that support but do you really think any will do a better job?

    1. best allies?

      you’re kidding me, right?

      funny thing is that no one says that norway isn’t free, or germany, or france ( our gdp per capita is higher than that of germany and france, btw. ) or denmark, or singapore…

      how would we be weakened? you haven’t done your research, have you.

      scotland is billed 3.5bn for defence spending ( or thereabouts) each year.

      of this.. only 1.6 bn is actually spent in, or even ‘on’ scotland. spending the same money we do now, we would be able to actually EXPAND our defensive coverage.

      with regards to the economy, within the uk, scotland’s economy is second only to that of the city of london. ( you know, that place with all the giant international finance companies ).

      our economy has consistently been growing at a faster rate than both any other part of the uk, and the uk itself taken as a whole. in gdp per capita terms, we would rank 14th. higher than germany, france, and the rUK.

      as for the english and being ‘allies’. they waged economic war to force nobles into signing a union the populace didn’t want. they used troops to suppress the populace when they expressed their anger at the signing of the union. the habit of deploying troops against scots expressing dissatisfaction with the union continued right through until last century, the last occurence being during the 1920 red clydeside phenomenon. consistently, scotland has been under-represented within the union, and used as little more than a convenient source of resources and funds ( mostly, we’ve been subsidising the union. not vice versa. ), troops, and a dumping ground for nuclear waste, spent munitions, and a base for trident submarines deemed ‘too dangerous’ to keep anywhere in england ( but next to our largest city is fine. )

      kevin, lad, you have a strange definition of ‘allies’.

      1. I’d say your economics facts are straight out of the SNPs propaganda manifesto. Unbiased? I’m not English and don’t live in the UK. From all the facts written on the Scottish economy, I suspect that any unbiased observer would conclude that in no way does Scotland subsidize the Union. Between 2009-2010 by its own public records, Scotland ‘got’ £16.5bn more in UK public spending than it contributed to total UK revenues – or a ‘subsidy’ of around £3,150 per head. Now, you can pick away at that statistic, but no serious independent expert has ever suggested the reverse, that Scotland isn’t subsidized. I could go on.

        With reference to past disputes, is there a people anywhere that have not suffered oppression? The Irish, the Welsh, the English themselves? Are Scotland a special case? Clearly the Scots think they are which has always led to their over-representation in the hierarchy of the UK parliament and influence on UK life. A state of affairs that probably wouldn’t have been tolerated anywhere else in the world.

        I think though my main point was not that the English are great allies, rather they are probably the best you’re going to find. And believe me, in this world today, you’re going to need close allies. The problems Israel has in the middle-east, Ukraine abandoned by the west, the economic hardships of Ireland, Spain and Greece in the EU, the terrible state of Mexico. A small country can’t stand alone anymore.

        1. actually, i went by the GERS figures and the HMRC disaggregation. stuff WESTMINSTER publishes.

          WESTMINSTERS OWN FIGURES STATE SCOTLAND SUBSIDISES THE UNION.

          also, kindly bear in mind that ‘public spending’ includes servicing debt we’re not responsible for, it involves much of OUR revenue not being attributed to us, as a result of oil revenue being attributed to westminster, and the HMRC system whereby revenue for exports is determined by where it LEAVES the uk, not where the goods are produced, where the company exporting them is based, etc.

          also i notice you select only ONE year. have a look at the other years. the dominant trend is for scotland to be operating at a surplus, and funding the union. tbh, the amount by which we fund the union is usually understated.

          no serious independent expert? so.. joseph stiglitz, a nobel laureate economist.. isn’t a serious independent expert?

          when i referenced the past, btw, i was simply pointing out that ‘allies’ are people you voluntarily associate with, not people who use military force to compel you to associate against your will. allies don’t talk you down and lie about you being subsidised. they don’t scaremonger about your prospects. i was trying to point out that simply because in the modern world, the use of military force isn’t practical for westminster, it doesn’t mean everything is rosy and we should just be happy that we’re not having the military used against us anymore.

          overrepresented? c’mon now. seriously. 650 mp’s at westminster… only 59 of them scottish. that’s population proportionate.

          you’re trotting out absolute nonsense here, and i think you know you are.

          also, what’s with the SNP reference? i’m in no way anything to do with the SNP, i source things independently. they and i agree on SOME points, differ on others. ( hardly surprising, considering i’m a marxist. )

          anyway, if you honestly think that scotland can’t do better than allowing itself to be dominated by westminster, and repeatedly subject to policies it wants nothing to do with, i really do think you’re delusional.

        2. oh, and btw, about england…we’re hoping england will follow our lead, and stop electing right wing imbeciles. hell, maybe they’ll even adopt an ACTUAL constitution and stop letting unelected peers and clergy run the bloody place!

  2. I only wish I could see Scotland independent. My heritage is Wiley, MacFarland, MacFarlane and Gunn. Wouldn’t it be grand to finally see Scotland free.

  3. sigh.

    okay.

    *is scottish*

    now that’s out of the way.

    only only two occasions in the last 50 years, have scottish votes affected electoral outcomes.

    it is perfectly possible for the rUK to get a non tory government without scots votes.

    the oil is NOT up in the air.

    more than 80% of the oil and gas is in what international law defines as scottish territory. it is ours. there is no argument about this. we’d be entitled to all the resources on our territory.

    with regards to wales… wales is ALREADY demanding more powers and better financing. scottish independence can’t START something that’s already happening, can it. time ISN’T really a big ball of wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff.. it’s linear.

    as for the west lothian ( it’d be nice if you pronounced lothian properly – http://vocaroo.com/i/s1hDsviG1oA2 ) question… due to the nature of uk funding distribution.. there IS no such thing as an ‘england only’ matter. anything which affects funding levels in england, has knock on effects for funding in scotland, wales, and northern ireland. the block grant system allocates scotland, wales, and northern ireland, a PROPORTION of what is spend in england, therefore anything in westminster that relates to expenditure ( ie : everything ) IS a matter for any of the other constituent countries, as well.

    with regards to the debt : scotland is not liable for any of the uk’s debt. the westminster treasury has, on at least two occasions, confirmed that westminster, and westminster ALONE, would be liable for any and all uk debt accrued up until scottish independence kicked in.

    we have, rather charitably, OFFERED to take on a population proportionate share of the debt ( works out at around 126bn gbp ), but said offer is CONDITIONAL upon westminster agreeing to a currency union.

    we probably would be following a different fiscal policy, yes.

    yes, scotland can be in the EU. we would be covered by EU legislation governing internal expansion. it would simply be a matter of negotiating the specifics, ie : whether or not we inherit the uk’s vetoes and opt out abilities, whether we maintain the terms with regards to fisheries, etc. but there is no actual question of whether or not we’d be in the EU.

    also, cenk, i expected better from you than to resort to implying that everyone who wants independence is simply influenced by braveheart. if you had DONE your research on this ( research IS kinda something that is expected of TYT, no?) you’d have come across newsnet scotland, wings over scotland, bella caledona, derek bateman, duggie dug, business for scotland, and multiple other sites. all detailing pro-independence arguments. all debunking anti-independence propaganda.

    given that scotland played rather a large role in the creation of YOUR country, we would appreciate if you showed us somewhat more respect than you have done in this pathetic excuse for a summary of the independence debate.

    in summary, kindly pull your head out of your arse and stop being such a bampot, thanks.

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